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Fall update won't play nice with Sony 1080p TVs


Angry owners in the AVS forum report that the Fall Update's vaunted 1080p support works as advertised with Samsung HDTVs -- but not with two of Sony's most popular (and expensive) 1080p LCD models XBR2/3:

I just had the time to quickly start poking around with the 360 dashboard update, and I'm sorry to report that 1080p is broken on the XBR2 via both component and VGA. When I select 1080p in VGA, I get a windowboxed picture with tons of info cut off on both sides and a warning from the TV saying "Invalid Signal--Check Your PC Output". Over component, when I select 1080p I get a screen full of static for 10 seconds before the console reverts to 1080i.

Feh. Since the XBR2 is one of the most high-profile, wildely available 1080p displays on the market, you'd think MS' engineers would find a way to get the two to work together, but noooooo...

While it's outrageous to suggest that MS would intentionally blacklist their rival's most popular HDTVs, it is amusingly ironic -- unless you're staring at a $4000 distorted screen right now. Another patch could be imminent. It's worth pointing out that most people on that thread say they're going to return their Sony set, not their Xbox 360. And, as usual, someone comments that an upscaled 1080i signal is indiscernible anyway.

Sidenote: The general public doesn't have a prayer of grasping this stuff.

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(Page 1)

1. Ive got the KDL40XBR2; one of the models they're talking about. I've been feeding it 1920x1080 (its really all progressive anyways) via VGA since day 1; this is a problem on the XBOX side of the equation.

Posted at 12:19AM on Nov 1st 2006 by Sagat 0 stars

2. I find this funny for the fact that its MICROSOFT not putting it into the patch...you can't tell me that sony put a source code in their tv's to stop 360s from playing on it....

I could be reading to much into this...but it seems that the console war is going to spread beyond the consoles....

Posted at 12:51AM on Nov 1st 2006 by Carnie 0 stars

3. It looks to me like the problem is that Microsoft is doing sync-on-green for the VGA only at 1920x1080, and separate h/v-sync at lower resolutions.

Why they did this, I don't know. It only affects sets that can't handle sync on green over VGA, like the XBR2/3.

I haven't heard of this problem with any other 1080p set, and, as I've mentioned before, my 1080p set is working fine. 1920x1080x60hz, flawlessly.

Now I just need some 1080p XBLA games... or maybe 1080p table tennis. Mmmm.

Posted at 12:55AM on Nov 1st 2006 by Ed 0 stars

4. The problem's not with the Xbox 360. The problem is with the TV. Any Computer Scientist could tell you that! :)

Posted at 12:59AM on Nov 1st 2006 by Tom 0 stars

5. Well, I don't have the LCD models, but I just recently acquired the KDS-R60XBR2.. the rear projection 1080p SXRD set.

This TV does not take 1080p over component... but it should do it over hdmi and 1920x1080 vga.. but for some reason it doesn't do the vga, probably what the other poster said about green sync..

It sucks but not too bummed out because of it. Maybe an HDMI cable for the 360 can remedy the situation.

Posted at 1:23AM on Nov 1st 2006 by Ideal 0 stars

6. I wonder how people would react if all new Sony TV's were completely incompatible with the Xbox 360... They'd probably even blame Microsoft for it.

Posted at 2:23AM on Nov 1st 2006 by Dave 0 stars

7. Great, Ive always been a sony fanboy, but ever since I went through 2 PSX's and 2 PS2's Plus a damn expensive TV I thought, hey what the hell am I opening my wallet to. So I bought an Xbox 1 (which by the way is bulletproof!), My new 40" LE40R74BDX Samsung LCD HDTV works great and the picture quality dwarfs the Sony, And also another note on build quality, My 360 is a launch console and has been in a head-on car crash (with me in the car) it slammed on the dash and then the floor, and still works, (albeit with a screw rolling around inside it) but, THATS GOOD BUILD QUALITY!!

So it doesn't suprise me that sony TV's dont work, I HAD ONE, IT WAS TERRIBLE!

Posted at 3:59AM on Nov 1st 2006 by David Wright 0 stars

8. Sagat, 1920x1080? since day one? I find this amazing because since the launch of the 360 1920x1080i support via VGA was withdrawn by Microsoft, and is what got me upset with them in the first place. Are you sure you were getting 1920x1080i out via VGA since day 1?

Posted at 5:45AM on Nov 1st 2006 by GhostDoggy 0 stars

9. GhostDoggy, pretty sure Sagat is saying he's been giving his TV 1080p over VGA since day 1. Based on what he said--one cannot even know if he owns a 360. He is just stating that his tv is cabable of the resolution over the same hookup so as to cast suspicion on the 360's communication with the Sony line. I don't know who's to blame, I like my 360 and my 1080p tv, and they work fine together.

Posted at 6:47AM on Nov 1st 2006 by crym fytr 0 stars

10. This is the most retarded specualtion I ahve ever seen. It's not a matter of anyone blackballing anyone or locking out hardware intentionally. Christ.

Posted at 7:11AM on Nov 1st 2006 by Nick James 0 stars

11. David,
The "screw loose" inside might just be the thing that rattles around inside all 360s which helps detect if it's vertical or horizontal. It does that so the ring of light is correct.

VGA doesn't support interlaced video as far as I know since it's designed for computers and you don't want interlaced video on a computer.

Posted at 7:17AM on Nov 1st 2006 by Matt 0 stars

12. Matt:

So that's what the noisy little thing is! I always wondered if I did something to my 360 that knocked something loose in there! Thanks for that post.

Posted at 7:36AM on Nov 1st 2006 by Frosty22 0 stars

13. I know there's a sensor, but I've never heard anything rattling in my 360.

Either way, if it works, why complain?

What's interesting is that Microsoft does very extensive testing of compatibility by going into big box retail stores and just hooking up to everything in sight after store hours. I'm sure they're aware of this problem.

Posted at 7:45AM on Nov 1st 2006 by J.Goodwin 0 stars

14. This happened to me on my Samsung HDTV. I spent a couple of hours with the 360 Tech team and they didn't know what was going on. They even told me to go to my ISP because they thought it was a short.

They are sending a new component cable, but, after reading this, I don't think that's the problem

Posted at 8:18AM on Nov 1st 2006 by Red 0 stars

15. Here are the facts:

(1) Sony is the one to blame, not Microsoft.

(2) The reason Sony is to blame is because they are manufacturing overpriced expensive HDTV sets that are not as technologically advanced as their competitors, especially Samsung.

(3) Samsung has been manufacturing HDTV sets since April of 2006 that can both Accept and Display 1080p resolution through the HDMI 1.3 cable Input, the 15-pin VGA cable Input, and the Component cable Input.

(4) Even Sony's newest batch of 1080p HDTV sets that were released in October of 2006 STILL cannot Accept a 1080p signal from the Component cable Inputs.

(5) Sony's newest batch of 1080p HDTV sets released in October of 2006 only Accept a 1080p signal from the HDMI 1.3 cable Input and “potentially” the 15-pin VGA Input, but definitely not the Component cable Input.

(6) Obviously, Sony's HDTV sets are now two full six-month launch seasons behind Samsung's HDTVs. This is the reason why Samsung received all of the HDTV awards at the January 2006 Consumer Electronics Show, while Sony was not given much attention.

(7) If you want to take a look at these facts, you can do so by looking at a website that lists detailed specifications on HDTV sets. Crutchfield is an excellent website that lists detailed specifications that tell what resolutions the different Inputs can Accept.

(8) Samsung's HLS-5087W, HLS-5687W, HLS-6187W, HLS-5088W, HLS-5688W, and HLS-6188W were released in April of 2006, and all of them Accept 1080p signals via Component video Inputs. You can read about these at this link: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-3Ov0TpTAzij/cgi-bin/Prodview.asp?readmore=true&search=hls%2D5087w&i=305HLS5087#Tab

(9) Also, if you go to this Crutchfield website and click on the Download Instruction Manual link, if you look on page 100-102, you will see that the Samsung HDTVs are capable of Accepting resolutions of 1920x1200p from a 15-pin PC source such as the Xbox 360 VGA cable, which is more than enough to handle the 1920x1080p requirement. Page 102 even says that it performs optimally at a resolution of 1920x1080p. You can read all about this at: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-wAdiWm4CIAA/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=147350&tab=detailed_info&i=305HLS5087#Tab

(10) If you go to Samsung's website, they have an excellent way for you to look at their HDTV products by simply typing in the name of the product and downloading the instruction manual. Here is a link to one of their products: http://www.samsung.com/Products/TV/DLPTV/HLS5088WXXAA.asp

(11) Even Sony's newest released products STILL do NOT Accept a 1080p signal via Component video Input. You can read about this here: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-gg7qvAtK0E3/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=146350&I=158KD52XB3 and also here http://www.crutchfield.com/S-pya6mzJrzQu/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?search=KDSR60XBR2&i=158SR60XB2

(12) Sony's HDTVs also have a problem with the way that 1080p signals are Accepted by the 15-pin PC connection would be made with an Xbox 360. On page 77 of Sony's Instruction Manual for the KDS-R60XBR2 HDTV, it says, "The TV's PC Input does not support interlaced signals." Well, the Xbox 360 now upconverts all signals to 1080p (if you set it to) before the signal reaches the Sony HDTV; therefore, the Sony HDTV is not dealing with Interlaced signals, and according to the instruction manual, it should work fine, just like the Samsung HDTVs. The problem is that people are saying that it doesn’t work properly.

From a speculative point of view, if you have your Xbox 360 set to 1080i, this may be the reason why it isn't working properly, because although the signal is received by the Sony HDTV at a resolution of 1080p, it originally started out at 1080i. When you have your Xbox 360 system at 720p, the resolution is upconverted in a way that never involves interlaced signals. Although the Xbox 360 eventually outputs 1080p either way, because the Xbox 360 upconverts to 1080p resolution, if you have your Xbox 360 system set to start out at 1080i, that may be the cause of the problem, and it might be corrected by setting it to start out at 720p.

Sony's HDTV is to blame if the Xbox 360 doesn't work when the Xbox 360 starts out at 1080p or 720p and is upconverted to 1080p. You can read Sony's instruction manual for that here by clicking on "Download User Instruction Manual": http://www.crutchfield.com/S-pya6mzJrzQu/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=147350&tab=detailed_info&i=158SR60XB2#Tab

(13) One thing is clear: Samsung makes HDTVs that are FAR superior to Sony HDTVs, at a much more reasonable price. Samsung received the award for Best HDTV at the Consumer Electronics Show in January 2006. We won't see a Sony HDTV capable of Accepting 1080p video Input for at least another 6 months in the spring of 2007, which puts Sony at least one full year behind Samsung.

Posted at 9:49AM on Nov 1st 2006 by Kim Naroz 2 stars

16. Add Mitsubishi 1080p tv's to the list. I chose 1080p and the screen went black. Got an email into support but haven't heard anything back.

Posted at 10:05AM on Nov 1st 2006 by Joe 0 stars

17. sounds to me like there is a "demand" for that HDMI cable for the 360. It also seems to me that since it was leaked from various places to come decemberish. Microsoft is fully aware of the 1080p issues with alot of tvs, and their solution next month will be for you to purchase their hdmi cable

Posted at 10:32AM on Nov 1st 2006 by Mike 0 stars

18. In Your Face Flanders!

Posted at 10:47AM on Nov 1st 2006 by Gold Farmer 0 stars

19. Dearest Kim Nimrod,

It's not just the Sony sets that are doing this. According to the AVSform thread regarding the Sony XBRs, there is a gentleman with a Samsung 244T that has issues as well. I've read on 3 other forums that as many as 4 brands are having issues. Microsoft is supposedly working on a fix that should be out within a week or so.

Your incredibly....um.....long post seems to be incorrect then. It's okay though. We get the idea - you don't like Sony, but you LOVE Samsung. Everyone needs a theme. You obviously have yours.

Good night and good luck.

PS - here's that thread so you can do hours of research: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=707726&page=53&pp=30&highlight=sony+xbr2+bravia

Posted at 12:20PM on Nov 1st 2006 by LushMojo 0 stars

20. #15 is right, the problem is with the Sony TVs and not the XBOX 360.

However, what they didn't mention was the fact that most of the Sony TVs like the KDS-R60XBR1/2 DISPLAY 1080p as their native res. Their solution has been to not trust the source of a strange HD signal ("you are not the True HD!" and just upconvert all signals such as 1080i to 1080p internally.

So if you have one such TV and you have been feeding it 1080i, in theory you have been watching as good as you can see the whole time, the only difference is that it is the TV doing the conversion instead of the XBOX360. I have no idea if there would even be a noticable difference if the TV did accept 1080p.

But it is indeed silly that the TVs do not accept a res they can display and the behavior that you get over the VGA input (I have an KDS-R60XBR1) is all kinds of nuts(I have not been able to get any signal from a computer, 360, or otherwise to display across the full screen over VGA but did over DVI converted to HDMI.)

It seems that Sony feels that not only is 1080p the only "True HD" but that the only way to pass that along is through the only "True HD Connection" which is HDMI. I Guess we know now why the PS3 has HDMI by default....

Posted at 12:34PM on Nov 1st 2006 by Riffix 0 stars

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